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  • 16 Nov 2020 8:49 AM
    Message # 9368019
    Deleted user

    I went out to feed my hives yesterday and discovered all three hives are empty even though there are still some frames containing honey.  I treated for mites in August and thought two of the three were healthy and flourishing.  I had been feeding with an entrance feeder for two months and there was a lot of activity.  Hadn't checked the hives for two or three weeks and yesterday found the results of my neglect.  Any ideas?

    Moved from General Bee Topics, including how to obtain bees: 23 Aug 2021 6:17 AM
  • 17 Nov 2020 10:57 AM
    Reply # 9370757 on 9368019

    When was the last time you checked for a queen? Did you have a robber screen on? I once mistook all the activity for a healthy, busy hive, but it was unwanted guests and my hive was dead. All the activity was bees from someone else's colony.

  • 17 Nov 2020 11:00 AM
    Reply # 9370761 on 9368019
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Perhaps the "a lot of activity" was robbing?  The advice given to me was always to use internal feeders (either board or top) or using an external feeder some distance away from hives. Boardman type feeders I've been told can contribute to robbing behaviors as the syrup is available so close to the entrance where bees from other hives can easily get if the hive does not protect itself well enough.

    The honey being mostly missing is evidence enough that robbing had been going on at some point. Do you also see lots of pieces of wax on the bottom board?

  • 17 Nov 2020 11:33 AM
    Reply # 9370794 on 9368019

    First of all, I’m sorry for your loss.  It is both sad to lose a hive and unusual to lose three at once.  My very first hive absconded on me in December of my first year, leaving a hive chock full of honey.  I pulled out all the frames, laid them on the garage floor and took pictures.  I sent these to Ramesh Sageli’s group at OSU for an analysis. The lab’s diagnosis was that my bees had probably absconded because of mites.  They were probably right because I hadn’t treated for mites.  I didn’t even know one should treat for mites.  My mentor at the time told me he had observed the bees at the hive entrance and hadn’t seen any mites on the them as they entered the hive, so he didn’t recommend treatment. 

    Since that first loss, I have had other hives abscond on me.  (None, I hope, because I failed to treat for mites.)  One absconded, I believe, because I let the hive temperature get too hot during a long stretch of hot days.  One absconded because I changed the hive configuration, moving a colony from a four over four resource box to a ten frame hive box. I’ve read that swarms are particularly prone to absconding, especially in the first days after you’ve captured them.  My point is that there are a lot of different conditions that may prompt your bees to abscond.  Without more information, it would be difficult to even guess the reason in your case. Here are some of the questions I would be interested in:

    • 1.       You said you treated your colonies for mites.  What did you treat with and when did you treat?  (You said August. When in August?)
    • 2.      Did you follow the treatment recommendation on the package.  e.g., temperature parameters.
    • 3.      Did you sample for mites before and after your treatment?  What were your numbers?  (I ask this because I treated with Apivar in August. My number for one hive was 3 at the beginning of treatment and 43 at the end.)
    • 4.      What’s you yellow jacket situation? Skunks?
    • 5.      How are your hives situated relative to the weather? Are they protected from rain or wind? Do they get sun? 
    • 6.      Did you feed your bees?  (You said there was honey.  How much?  How close to the cluster?) 

    These questions are just off the top of my head.  I would challenge other readers of the forum to ask additional questions to help develop a picture of your hives’ situation.  

    I see that some readers have already brought up robbing.  I would say that’s a good possibility.  But, the fact that  you lost three hives, including your stronger hives might point in a different direction.

  • 19 Nov 2020 6:08 PM
    Reply # 9376564 on 9368019
    Anonymous

    One thought to help with the possibility of robbing is are there other hive in the area of your hives.  

    Is there any evidence of neglected brood?

  • 20 Nov 2020 9:14 AM
    Reply # 9377553 on 9368019

    Chuck: I'm not saying that the cause of the loss of your hives wasn't robbing, it's just that you haven't mentioned evidence of robbing.  It has been my experience that when a hive is robbed out, there is always evidence left behind, such as ragged frames of cells where the robbers have chewed into the foundation to get at the loot.  There's dead bees left over from the battle between the home colony and the robbers.  There's shredded wax below the hive or the landing board (robbers are messy and in a hurry to get in and get out with the booty.)  Is any of this evident around your hives? 

  • 20 Nov 2020 1:26 PM
    Reply # 9378027 on 9368019
    Deleted user

    I have to admit, I hadn't opened the hives up for several month to inspect for queen / brood activity.  Two of the hives had evidence of wax damage on the bottom screens but not the third.  The first hive was weak and showed evidence of dead bees a couple months ago,  I suspected it was queen less.  This was a hive that I had wintered over from last year.

    The other two seemed to be thriving until a month ago, when I noticed a lot of yellow jackets around the hives.  One of these seemed fine and then about two to three weeks later the bees were gone.  No sign of damage, i.e. wax particles below the hive etc. This was one I got as a swarm in June and seemed to be flourishing and producing honey in the supers.

    The third hive was one I added as a NUC this year and seemed fine and they were filling the supers this summer but after I took all but one super off in August, the yellow jackets became increasingly interested and about two months later there was no activity and a bunch of dead bees at the bottom screen.  I had installed entrance reducers on all the hives when I notices yellow jacket activity, but sadly that was not sufficient to keep them at bay.

    I'm rather new to beekeeping and have been hesitant to open the hives up to inspect very often because I don't feel confident about what to look for and have never found a queen in the three years I've been involved.  So I'm pretty sure I'm doing a lot wrong, but was so hopeful that the hives looked good (activity wise and honey production wise) this spring and summer.   I'm not sure whether to try again or not.

  • 20 Nov 2020 1:36 PM
    Reply # 9378062 on 9368019
    Deleted user

    In answer to you questions Ted,  I treated the hives using oxalic acid vapor mid-August after removing the honey supers.  I had two hives in a covered area and one about 100yds away from the other two in the open.  I don't thing skunks were the problem since the hive boxes were in tact.

    As mentioned before, robbing could have certainly been a factor since I was using the entrance feeder bottles, and saw yellow jackets around the hives but I guess I naively assumed they weren't in sufficiently large numbers to wipe out all three.    I don't know.

    I'd like to thank all who offered suggestions and wished I had done more proactively to save this project.

  • 20 Nov 2020 6:55 PM
    Reply # 9378346 on 9368019

    Unfortunately without knowing your mite counts, it's hard to say what part mites may have played in the demise of your bees.  But given that you only treated once. with OAV in August, and you didn't sample before or afterwards, I would place my money on mites being the main culprit in the loss of your hives..  Yellow jackets and robbers are the clean up crew after the mites and the viruses they carry have weakened the colony. 

    Oxalic Acid works great if there is no capped brood in the hive.  (For example, if you treat a freshly caught swarm before it caps any brood in the hive.)  if you have capped brood, most of the mites are under the cappings. Oxalic acid won't penetrate the caps to kill the mites. In my opinion, one of the best things that TVBA has done for its members in the last couple of years is hand out those plastic mite sampling cups. Free.  Now,  if we can just get in the habit of using them. 

  • 18 Dec 2020 2:08 PM
    Reply # 9439601 on 9368019
    Anonymous

    Both of my colonies got robbed out as well. Mite counts were low in July (2% alcohol wash) until they weren’t (in August). The mite growth was explosive! I treated OAV four times on five day cycle. Too little, too late as the colonies could not defend.

    So, I’m busy prepping for next spring with six new colonies. Packages and TVBA nucs. Will TVBA have nucs on offer? Are members limited to how many they might buy?

    My main question today is about Drone frames as an IPM tool. My understanding is that one places a single drone frame in the bottom box then replaces it every three weeks with an empty. The full one goes in the freezer to kill the mite infected drone larvae. If I understand the theory correctly, this breaks the brood cycle on the most mite-desired drone brood and helps keep mite numbers from exploding. Timing is critical and OAV is still required.

    Has anyone any opinion or insights on this method of IPM? Thanks, and, Merry Christmas to all!

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