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Late season comb building

  • 27 Jul 2021 7:11 AM
    Message # 10777487
    Anonymous

    Are there methods to try and trick the bees into building comb onto new foundation at this time of year? They hav drawn none on my medium supers, which ave been on for a month. I have plenty of white clover and gumweed flowering with sunflowers and asters coming next and had hoped to see some fall honey. The double deep brood boxes are heavy with resources and the girls are bringing in lots of pollen. I don’t want to give up on the season just yet, but I do want to get them started on growing the “fat bees” for winter. Any suggestions? Thanks

  • 27 Jul 2021 11:24 AM
    Reply # 10777992 on 10777487
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Hi Ken, I'd say the most important thing for growing "fat bees' is to be sure to control varroa levels in your colonies between now and early winter.  The bees don't need more supers built to ensure their overwintering, and it's great that you have them in good forage to continue building up their stores in the deep boxes. I'd take off the supers and let them concentrate on their deeps now. And test and medicate to knock mite levels back if called for. In my experience, wax building is tied into swarm season and late spring. Swarms are the very best comb drawing bees, as they are geared up to build a new realm :)

  • 28 Jul 2021 7:48 AM
    Reply # 10779849 on 10777487
    Anonymous

    Thank you, Debby. That is the conclusion I have been slowly coming to over the past few days and appreciate hearing the same from you. No honey this year and focus on making strong colonies.

  • 28 Jul 2021 5:33 PM
    Reply # 10780997 on 10777487
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    What is a good target hive weight for overwintering here in the TV valley floor? I see that SG likes a 60# deep.

    Is there no late season nectar flow here? Is there a calendar published that shows our expected local nectar flows?

    Last modified: 28 Jul 2021 5:44 PM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 29 Jul 2021 6:58 AM
    Reply # 10782079 on 10777487
    Anonymous

    I don’t have a scale in my bee yard but the boxes are HEAVY. All stages of brood and crammed with resources last I looked a month ago. I put on fresh foundation they have drawn zero out.

    I planted a 2.5 acre pollinator meadow which had a good late season flow last year; gumweed, asters, etc. I also irrigate some white clover and sunflowers for late nectar. I will likely pull the supers in the coming days, do a mite wash, and see if they are interested in 2:1 syrup.

  • 29 Jul 2021 9:33 AM
    Reply # 10782413 on 10777487
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Richard, bees are quite naturally forage-focused, with their populations ebbing and flowing to track along with food supplies. There is the big world around us of wild and agricultural blooms, and there is our own small world of forage  we can control more.  Big forage in western Oregon is wild blackberry blossoms in June and all of the ag crop pushes with crimson clover, berries and fruit.  If you have the space, you can follow Ken's great example of planting for the bees, AND you can control when the bloom period is by plant choices (bloom period can vary) and when you put the seeds in the ground. In our long growing season area (even longer now with climate change),  people plan in the spring for summer harvest and can replant or plant in summer for fall blooms. (This will require good watering protocols) I had a great late season (October) crop of sunflowers that I planted jut for my bees and birds in July last year, so have done the same again this year. It's a great top off of nutritious pollen just before bees tuck themselves in for the winter.

  • 26 Aug 2021 6:52 AM
    Reply # 10958390 on 10777487
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    2:1 syrup they will store like honey, use this to add weight 

    1:1 syrup simulates incoming nectar flow and will encourage them to build comb.

  • 26 Aug 2021 8:04 PM
    Reply # 10959796 on 10777487

    Hmmm. I just checked my hives yesterday. They each have an 8-frame brood box loaded (85-90%) with brood, maybe 1 frame total of stores each, and a medium (over an excluder) already packed with honey from the 1:1 syrup I've been feeding them. I plan to give them some of that for the winter, along with a candy board, and freeze the rest to feed back in the spring. At the end of July I removed the honey supers I plan to extract. My mite counts are almost nil.

    Given how full the boxes are, I added a 2nd medium for them to build comb and fill as they want, while I continue to feed them 1:1. I was going to go to 2:1 but as dry as it is I think they need the added moisture.

    Based on what was stated earlier in this thread though, should I not have added another medium box? If I start feeding 2:1 syrup, where would they put it without that 2nd box? Where would they even put the 1:1? Or should I be forcing them to replace some of the hatching brood with stores, meaning don't put on the 2nd medium? But seems too early for that.

    I guess it's a good problem to have, but I'm at a loss as to what my box structure should look like at this time of year. Suggestions?

  • 29 Aug 2021 8:36 AM
    Reply # 10966561 on 10777487
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    I see it as a balance between

    -colony numbers (population needed to stay warm, and patrol the hive)

    -quantity of reserves (hive weight)

    -how well the box is insulated.

    We have really wild temp variations here in the TV, insulation will help improve a colony's efficiency (the less temp loss the less energy required by the bees to maintain, thus less stores and population needed to over-winter) It is easier and more economic for the bees to cool a hot hive than it is to heat a cold hive.

    A weak colony with lots of stores can/will get robbed out  (in dearth until the weather gets enough cold they don't fly.).

    An opposite angle of that, not enough space and they are more inclined to swarm.

    Don't look at water content of 1:1 they treat this as incoming nectar and make space to dry it out (build comb). As the nectar dries out it does not displace so much space, then the bees consolidate it and cap it.

    I have read the the bees will collect condensate in the lower part of the hive and mix that with honey for feeding.

    So as long as there is no puddling or condensate dripping on brood, I don't see that as a problem. Many inner covers are made from thin material that sags when it gets wet (and drips on the center of the hive). The condensation comes from a cold un-insulated top cover. Insulating the top cover will reduce the temp differential and in turn help prevent the condensation. 

    Last modified: 29 Aug 2021 9:15 AM | Anonymous member (Administrator)
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